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Lies About The Bible


 SERVANT OF JESUS
 

SERVANT OF JESUS Said:

"Ok vernon this subject would be my favorite can we dicsuss it with out slashing or name calling I'm not saying that you would I have just had it happen a lot lately"

I'm sorry to hear that. You can be sure that anyone who would call a Christian names is not your brother or sister in Christ.

You said: "First off are you saying that there are two seperate persons that GOD did not robe him self in flesh to use is own blood for our sins that he had to actually send someone else?"

I do not know how much you know about the Bible so bare with me if I tell you things that you already know. You used all capital letters for GOD. Did you know that in the Old Testament the English translation of YHWH in the Hebrew is the personal name of God the Father? That name in English is Jehovah. The early translation that the Roman Catholic produced took out His personal name and substituted 2 words throughout the Old Testament. Every where you see GOD & LORD, the original Hebrew is (YHWH English translation) or name of God the Father.

When the Son of God took the flesh of a human so that He could bring the message that one day the Kingdom of God would be set up on Earth, He also spoke in clear terms that men understood. Terms like Father-Son. There is no way I can see, that He could make it any clearer. Now when He said, "He who hath seen me hath seen the father..." I know that it was not meant as a face to face...I'm looking at the Father, because no one has seen the Father John 6:46 Then He says in John 14:9 He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I do not believe there are contridictions in the Bible, yet at face value one may think it is.  What I believe is that we have missunderstandings of the scriptures not contridiction of the word of God. What Jesus was saying is that if you see the truth in what He was saying, and the love He has for people and so on, then you have seen the Father. In other words they have the same values and the same purpose in healing and guiding mankind to Eternal Life. If you see it that way there is no contridiction.  It was not as a father and son on earth who look alike, but that Jesus and Jehovah have the same inward qualities. Jesus made every thing easy to understand. It is man who makes it confusing. I could see that fact at the age of 10. I thank God for that insight.

You said: "are you saying that there are two seperate persons that GOD did not robe him self in flesh to use His own blood for our sins that he had to actually send someone else.

Neither Jesus or his Father are flesh, but Spirit.  Jesus only barrowed the flesh so that he could speak to mankind in simple words that man understands. 

If you believe that Jesus the Son and Jehovah the Father are the same person, that's fine for you. There are a majority that believe the same. I am the one that is in the minority. Yes, Jesus said that He was sent by His Father, and I Believe Him. I hope that isn't a crime, although the way things are going, I think it may be someday. If you believe in this trinity god you will not have to fear men. If I believe in the trinity I will have to fear God. There is a wide gate that leads to destruction and a narrow gate that leads to life. Matt. 7:13-14 there will be few who find the narrow Gate. Jesus made it simple...Father, Son...Word of God coming through His Son...trinity...confusion Jesus said..My Father in Heaven...the Father spoke from heaven... This is my beloved Son...Jesus said....but your will be done Father not mine...Jehovah sent His Son to pay our way to life Eternal. It's simple and all the Churches in Chrisendom can not sway me.

Posted by Vernon at 10:33 PM - 9 Comments   Add a Comment  
 

 Reply Aelgius
 

Thanks Aelgius, Where did you come up with that name, it sounds like it comes from Biblical times and sounds familiar.

Finally, someone who has it together. It is a pleasure to welcome you to my blog. I agree with most of what you have said and in fact live by those principals. But because most of Christianity has accepted the trinity as fact, when there is no basis for it, I believe it is important that we know the truth.

If we understand that every person and spirit in the universe and heaven has a name, and the Holy Spirit has no name, isn't it at least a thing to be considered, that it may not be a person but the Power of God? Consider this also, if the idea of the trinity was not a part of the Christian doctrine until 381 AD, but it was well known among the Babylonians (confusion) until their destruction. Why would any Christian accept it as fact? Just because there is a Jesus and there is a Jehovah (who's name they tried to get removed from scripture) and there is a Holy Spirit, does not make them a trinity. There are three people left living in my family and we are very close, but that does not make us a trinity. The three persons in one God came from very confused people. Babylon is false religion and the Church of today is very close to being in the same danger as the Babylonians were.

The scriptures say Jesus is the image of the Father, not the Father Himself. Jesus said that he and the Father are one. He did not say he, the Father and the Holy Spirit are one. I weigh the evidence; when Jesus said your will be done Father, not mine. This tells me they are not one God. When the Father spoke out of the clouds of Heaven and said this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. It tells me they are not one God. When Jesus is called the Son of God, it tells me they are not one God. Jesus is God's Son, therefore He is (a) God. In the Greek text there is no word for (a) and because of the Churches influence the translators left out the (a) People say "but there is only one God" As you said correctly: "In Genesis God said, "Let Us create man in Our image" This does not prove a trinity. "us" could be Jesus and his Father with or without the Holy Spirit. Being that the word God (elohim) is in the plural it has to be two Gods or more. So there is more than one god. The Bible does say to Israel "have no other Gods before me. That was Jehovah speaking. Abraham was told to offer his son as a blood sacrifice. This is a picture of what Jehovah would do later. Jehovah stopped him when He saw Abraham's faith, and provided a substitute. Now God provides a substitute for the sacrificial Lamb, His only begotten Son.

We must take God by faith and that is every word in scripture. We must also root out all of the garbage that man has polluted the faith with. The Babylonian trinity is a serious weed problem. It makes no sense to anyone and drives many people away from the faith. 1+1+1=3 not 1 the Laws that God Himself instituted.  It is not God that confuses, but man.

Posted by Vernon at 11:59 AM - 6 Comments   Add a Comment  
 

 Common Sense
 

It makes no difference where I Get the information. Common sense alone crushes the trinity doctrine. If it were essential to believe it as the RCC teaches, then Jesus would have taught it. Are you telling me that all believers in Christ for 381 years after Christ are burning in Hell because they didn't believe in the trinity? Why aren't you Catholic? If these highly intelligent people came up with what you call truth, then shouldn't you be among them? From what I understand they believe that they are the true Church and if you are not a member you will burn.
Posted by Vernon at 3:45 PM - 1 Comment   Add a Comment  
 
 Apostasy Foretold by Jesus and the Apostles
 

THE Roman Catholic Church states: "The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion . . . Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: 'the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.' In this Trinity . . . the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent."—The Catholic Encyclopedia.

It says all alike are uncreated and yet in Colossians 1:15 It says Jesus was the first-born of all creation. So how did the trinity doctrine start.

THE ante-Nicene Fathers were acknowledged to have been leading religious teachers in the early centuries after Christ's birth. What they taught is of interest.

Justin Martyr, who died about 165 C.E., called the prehuman Jesus a created angel who is "other than the God who made all things." He said that Jesus was inferior to God and "never did anything except what the Creator . . . willed him to do and say."

Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the prehuman Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the "One true and only God," who is "supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other."

Clement of Alexandria, who died about 215 C.E., called Jesus in his prehuman existence "a creature" but called God "the uncreated and imperishable and only true God." He said that the Son "is next to the only omnipotent Father" but not equal to him.

Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E., taught the supremacy of God. He observed: "The Father is different from the Son (another), as he is greater; as he who begets is different from him who is begotten; he who sends, different from him who is sent." He also said: "There was a time when the Son was not. . . . Before all things, God was alone."

Hippolytus, who died about 235 C.E., said that God is "the one God, the first and the only One, the Maker and Lord of all," who "had nothing co-eval [of equal age] with him . . . But he was One, alone by himself; who, willing it, called into being what had no being before," such as the created prehuman Jesus.

FOR many years, there had been much opposition on Biblical grounds to the developing idea that Jesus was God. To try to solve the dispute, Roman emperor Constantine summoned all bishops to Nicaea. About 300, a fraction of the total, actually attended.

Constantine was not a Christian. Supposedly, he converted later in life, but he was not baptized until he lay dying. Regarding him, Henry Chadwick says in The Early Church: "Constantine, like his father, worshipped the Unconquered Sun; . . . his conversion should not be interpreted as an inward experience of grace . . . It was a military matter. His comprehension of Christian doctrine was never very clear, but he was sure that victory in battle lay in the gift of the God of the Christians."

What role did this unbaptized emperor play at the Council of Nicaea? The Encyclopædia Britannica relates: "Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, 'of one substance with the Father' . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination."

Hence, Constantine's role was crucial. After two months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician intervened and decided in favor of those who said that Jesus was God. But why? Certainly not because of any Biblical conviction. "Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology," says A Short History of Christian Doctrine. What he did understand was that religious division was a threat to his empire, and he wanted to solidify his domain.

None of the bishops at Nicaea promoted a Trinity, however. They decided only the nature of Jesus but not the role of the holy spirit. If a Trinity had been a clear Bible truth, should they not have proposed it at that time?

AFTER Nicaea, debates on the subject continued for decades. Those who believed that Jesus was not equal to God even came back into favor for a time. But later Emperor Theodosius decided against them. He established the creed of the Council of Nicaea as the standard for his realm and convened the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E. to clarify the formula.

That council agreed to place the holy spirit on the same level as God and Christ. For the first time, Christendom's Trinity began to come into focus.

Yet, even after the Council of Constantinople, the Trinity did not become a widely accepted creed. Many opposed it and thus brought on themselves violent persecution. It was only in later centuries that the Trinity was formulated into set creeds. The Encyclopedia Americana notes: "The full development of Trinitarianism took place in the West, in the Scholasticism of the Middle Ages, when an explanation was undertaken in terms of philosophy and psychology."

THE Trinity was defined more fully in the Athanasian Creed. Athanasius was a clergyman who supported Constantine at Nicaea. The creed that bears his name declares: "We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."

Well-informed scholars agree, however, that Athanasius did not compose this creed. The New Encyclopædia Britannica comments: "The creed was unknown to the Eastern Church until the 12th century. Since the 17th century, scholars have generally agreed that the Athanasian Creed was not written by Athanasius (died 373) but was probably composed in southern France during the 5th century. . . . The creed's influence seems to have been primarily in southern France and Spain in the 6th and 7th centuries. It was used in the liturgy of the church in Germany in the 9th century and somewhat later in Rome."

So it took centuries from the time of Christ for the Trinity to become widely accepted in Christendom. And in all of this, what guided the decisions? Was it the Word of God, or was it clerical and political considerations? In Origin and Evolution of Religion, E. W. Hopkins answers: "The final orthodox definition of the trinity was largely a matter of church politics."

THIS disreputable history of the Trinity fits in with what Jesus and his apostles foretold would follow their time. They said that there would be an apostasy, a deviation, a falling away from true worship until Christ's return, when true worship would be restored before God's day of destruction of this system of things.

Regarding that "day," the apostle Paul said: "It will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed." (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 7) Later, he foretold: "When I have gone fierce wolves will invade you and will have no mercy on the flock. Even from your own ranks there will be men coming forward with a travesty of the truth on their lips to induce the disciples to follow them." (Acts 20:29, 30, JB) Other disciples of Jesus also wrote of this apostasy with its 'lawless' clergy class.—See, for example, 2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 4:1-3; Jude 3, 4.

Paul also wrote: "The time is sure to come when, far from being content with sound teaching, people will be avid for the latest novelty and collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and then, instead of listening to the truth, they will turn to myths."—2 Timothy 4:3, 4, JB.

Jesus himself explained what was behind this falling away from true worship. He said that he had sowed good seeds but that the enemy, Satan, would oversow the field with weeds. So along with the first blades of wheat, the weeds appeared also. Thus, a deviation from pure Christianity was to be expected until the harvest, when Christ would set matters right. (Matthew 13:24-43) The Encyclopedia Americana comments: "Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching." Where, then, did this deviation originate?—1 Timothy 1:6.

THROUGHOUT the ancient world, as far back as Babylonia, the worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common. That influence was also prevalent in Egypt, Greece, and Rome in the centuries before, during, and after Christ. And after the death of the apostles, such pagan beliefs began to invade Christianity.

Historian Will Durant observed: "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. . . . From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity." And in the book Egyptian Religion, Siegfried Morenz notes: "The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians . . . Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology."

Thus, in Alexandria, Egypt, churchmen of the late third and early fourth centuries, such as Athanasius, reflected this influence as they formulated ideas that led to the Trinity. Their own influence spread, so that Morenz considers "Alexandrian theology as the intermediary between the Egyptian religious heritage and Christianity."

In the preface to Edward Gibbon's History of Christianity, we read: "If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians . . . was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief."

A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge notes that many say that the Trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and ingrafted on the Christian faith." And The Paganism in Our Christianity declares: "The origin of the [Trinity] is entirely pagan."

That is why, in the Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics, James Hastings wrote: "In Indian religion, e.g., we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahma, Siva, and Visnu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus . . . Nor is it only in historical religions that we find God viewed as a Trinity. One recalls in particular the Neo-Platonic view of the Supreme or Ultimate Reality," which is "triadically represented." What does the Greek philosopher Plato have to do with the Trinity?

PLATO, it is thought, lived from 428 to 347 before Christ. While he did not teach the Trinity in its present form, his philosophies paved the way for it. Later, philosophical movements that included triadic beliefs sprang up, and these were influenced by Plato's ideas of God and nature.

The French Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (New Universal Dictionary) says of Plato's influence: "The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher's conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions."

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge shows the influence of this Greek philosophy: "The doctrines of the Logos and the Trinity received their shape from Greek Fathers, who . . . were much influenced, directly or indirectly, by the Platonic philosophy . . . That errors and corruptions crept into the Church from this source can not be denied."

The Church of the First Three Centuries says: "The doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; . . . it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures; . . . it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers."

By the end of the third century C.E., "Christianity" and the new Platonic philosophies became inseparably united. As Adolf Harnack states in Outlines of the History of Dogma, church doctrine became "firmly rooted in the soil of Hellenism [pagan Greek thought]. Thereby it became a mystery to the great majority of Christians."

The church claimed that its new doctrines were based on the Bible. But Harnack says: "In reality it legitimized in its midst the Hellenic speculation, the superstitious views and customs of pagan mystery-worship."

In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity: "We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy . . . The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists."

Thus, in the fourth century C.E., the apostasy foretold by Jesus and the apostles came into full bloom. Development of the Trinity was just one evidence of this. The apostate churches also began embracing other pagan ideas, such as hellfire, immortality of the soul, and idolatry. Spiritually speaking, Christendom had entered its foretold dark ages, dominated by a growing "man of lawlessness" clergy class.—2 Thessalonians 2:3, 7.

WHY, for thousands of years, did none of God's prophets teach his people about the Trinity? At the latest, would Jesus not use his ability as the Great Teacher to make the Trinity clear to his followers? Would God inspire hundreds of pages of Scripture and yet not use any of this instruction to teach the Trinity if it were the "central doctrine" of faith?

Posted by Vernon at 11:28 AM - No Comments   Add a Comment  
 

 Questions for PuriChristos
 

First, I apologize for not posting on your Blog. Every time I try I get an error message.

PuriChristos Said: Ok, I have been reading another blog for a few days about “lies in the Bible.” You got it wrong, There are no lies in the Bible. It is lies about the Bible. You know like the apple Eve gave Adam. That's not what it says. Things like that.

I have a few questions for you that really eat me up. Forgive me for not being able to put into words as beautifully as you do.

How is it that this so called one God prays to himself in the garden and asks himself to take the cup away from him. Then he says but not my will but yours be done.

How is it that this one God speaks to the crowds from Heaven saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" Is this God glorifying himself?

How can this one God speak to men in terms that men understand, as Father--Son; didn't this one God realize how confusing that would be for men to understand that this Father Son was One God? Did God come to confuse us as He did in Babylon?

There was know Knowledge  in the old testament of God having a Son. Thus it was only natural for them to worship one God.

You made mention of Jesus referring to the angels as being His angels. When I was living with my parents I called their home, my home. I don't see how that makes Jesus part of a trinity.

I believe Jesus when He refers to His Father as just that. And the Father to His Son.

I don't know where it is found in the Bible, but isn't there a time coming when the Father turns over the Kingdom to His Son. So if they are one God He is turning it over to Himself. Is that correct?

Posted by Vernon at 8:59 PM - No Comments   Add a Comment  
 
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